The Courage to Feel: Why True Strength Lies in Vulnerability

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My mission to end the silence, the stigma and the shame about

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suicide loss, ideation and mental health.

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Please, won't you join me?

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Elaine Lindsay: Welcome to

Suicide Zen Forgiveness.

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The podcast that shares powerful

stories of suicide loss, ideation,

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and mental health in order to break

the silence, stigma, and shame.

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Our mission is to encourage empathy for

those experiencing these challenges.

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Every narrative serves as a beacon of hope

on a touch lives and inspire resilience.

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Won't you join me in this journey as we

share stories to help others to find hope.

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Please note this podcast is

for educational purposes and

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may contain triggering content.

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If you're grieving or

experiencing mental health issues.

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Please reach out to your local

suicide hotline or mental health

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office for immediate help.

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And now, let's start the show.

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Hello there, it's great to be back.

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I'm Elaine Lindsay as You hope we

know by now and today I have a guest

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that I met online and we saw ourselves

together for the first time in this

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meeting, and I am quite honestly.

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Blown away by how this young man

had taken his tragedy and turned it

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into such a positive force in order

to help men and their mental health.

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I am so honoured to bring

to you Ethan Getchell.

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We're going to talk all about who

he is, what he does and how he got

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high.

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Ethan Getchell: Hi, Elaine.

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Thanks for having me.

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Elaine Lindsay: I'm so

honored to have you for sure.

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I think it's often nicer to allow my

guests to tell us a little bit about

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themselves rather than make you sit

through some long diatribe on all your

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accomplishments, because I have to

say, for your age, there are a lot.

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I'll let you go ahead and tell

us a bit about what you do and

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then we'll get into your story.

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Ethan Getchell: Yeah, I appreciate that.

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I'm 23.

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I'm a clinical social work

fellow at Michigan Medicine.

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I work on the depression team.

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I'm sitting with people who are

struggling with depression and suicide

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ideation and other mental health issues.

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In my free time, I am passionate about

men's mental health and redefining a

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lot of those similar things that I was

hearing in the intro, the stigma, the

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shame, the isolation, the loneliness.

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and try to coming up with forms of

healing and better ways to grieve.

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So I do that through a published

book, things in my pocket and a

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weekly newsletter called Hey, man.

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Elaine Lindsay: It is so excellent.

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And I have to say for those of you

on LinkedIn and I know that's quite

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a few people follow Ethan because.

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Every post has value.

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Every post has heart and soul and

really touches something important

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because, in all honesty, we all,

what I say, what I call, get on

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the grief train at some point.

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Some of us make, More regular, sadly,

stops and get on and off, but everybody's

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there and we can all benefit from

a little bit of hope and that's I

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believe what you bring to the table

for sure, and see, I was not joking.

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He is very young.

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No offense, Ethan.

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I think it's absolutely wonderful

to have not gone into stasis.

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When you lost your brother,

that's critically important.

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And I know that times have

changed somewhat early on

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when I lost my friend, Andrea.

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We were 16, and suicide

was still against the law.

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And that, I'm so glad we've come

far enough that we're no longer.

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In that era, in most places, that

being said why don't you take us back

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to learn a little bit about yourself

and your brother, Austin, correct?

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Ethan Getchell: Absolutely.

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So part of why I write on LinkedIn is

because I have a business background.

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So my undergraduate studies.

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We're at hope college, which is funny.

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And yeah, I went to a

college named after hope.

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I learned a lot there about hope.

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Their symbol is an anchor.

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And anyways, we can get into that, but I

was studying business at the time and my

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junior year it was a Monday and I got a

call that my brother had done by suicide.

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And yeah, it really just threw

me into this ocean of grief.

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And the next year was

really just about surviving.

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And in reflection, I noticed that there

really wasn't a model or a form, and

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there weren't a lot of male mentors

in the space and the ones that were,

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there wasn't a lot of talk openly

about what they had been through.

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I did find a therapist.

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So that was really helpful.

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That was the first time I really had

exposure to the world of therapy.

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And then about a year later,

Wrapping up my senior year, it

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was February of my senior year,

finishing up my degree in business.

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I was planning to go into

commercial rent, commercial real

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estate, talking to a mentor.

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And I was telling him this and he

goes, you could tell I was hesitant or

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had something in the back of my mind.

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He's so what's your crazy idea?

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I was like, I'd love to go into

mental health counseling, really dive

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into this area of working with young

men, boys, like my brother, Austin.

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Who had been struggling and struggling

in silence because Austin's experience

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really exposed me to the silent suffering

that a lot of boys and men go through.

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So he really encouraged me to pursue it.

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So I pivoted, called my parents and

I was like, Hey, I don't think I'm

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going to start working right away.

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I think I'm going to go to grad school.

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And they're very supportive, which

really helped me continue down this path.

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So then I applied to University

of Michigan School of Social Work.

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I got in, that took me 16 months, and

then started this amazing fellowship.

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And so in about two years, I went

from pursuing business to sitting

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with patients in a therapy office, and

there's some tremendous imposter syndrome

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there, but really staying grounded with

my mission and wanting to work with

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young men and having my own personal

grief story to continue to motivate

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me and Austin's story to motivate me.

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Yeah,

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Elaine Lindsay: oh, wow.

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Wow.

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That's well, to me it's just incredible.

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It's wonderful that your parents supported

you, but I'm so grateful to your mentor.

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I'm not that there's anything

wrong with real estate.

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I think it's wonderful,

but we need more of you.

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The crisis in men in the

world is, I believe now we're

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at Four times that of women.

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And as much as people say women

are more emotional and wear their

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heart on their sleeve and, all the

feelings and what have you, it's

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actually why we're at this place.

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That the statistics for men are so high.

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Because Although it is changing, and I

know the millennials started the change

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to acknowledge that men are human too,

you have feelings, and you go through

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crises you're not made of rock, like

We all assume, growing up, one of the,

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most pivotal moments in my life was

while we were home in Scotland, I was,

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I think, 12, going on 13, and there was

a, I, to this day, I don't know what was

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actually happening, some family issue.

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And in the middle of the night, I

woke up and my father was sitting

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on the side of the bed with my mom.

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And I thought my father was crying,

and it just took my world out of orbit.

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What is going on?

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He's my hero.

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Daddies don't do this.

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This is so wrong.

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And it took me a really long time to

get past that and realize That's, why

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would he not, he's human, why would

he not feel the same things we feel?

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And it started me questioning a

number of things, but we were so

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used to the men are the breadwinners,

they're the strong ones they're the

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rock that holds the family together.

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They're just.

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a million adages.

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That's an awful lot to put on a young boy,

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to have to be all of these things.

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And suffering in silence,

sadly, is the norm,

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for some of us, females who have ideation.

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That's the same thing, the silence piece.

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But was Austin your younger brother?

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Ethan Getchell: Yeah, so I'm

the oldest of three boys.

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Elaine Lindsay: I

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Ethan Getchell: have a middle brother,

Hayden, we're all two years apart.

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So now he's 21.

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But at the time, I was 20, Hayden was 18,

and Austin was 16 when he passed away.

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And, in my reflection, We're a very

close family, very loving, often told

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each other that we loved each other.

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My mom was someone who was

always there for us, both of my

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parents would do anything for us.

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And Austin had a cat, Ty, and

he had a blue Camaro that he

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got for his 16th birthday.

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He was on the tennis team.

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So really from the outside, it looked

like he had everything together.

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Yeah.

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And.

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I think, one of the things our family

holds on to today is that we did the

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best that we could with the information

that we had, but there was a piece of a

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lack of information, a lack of priority.

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For mental health.

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It wasn't anything that we

really explicitly talked about.

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It was we checked on physical health.

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We worked out, we gave each other

kind of a hard time, but there

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really wasn't a space to sit and be

vulnerable with like, how are you doing?

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And I think in a house with four guys

and my mom, who's also pretty tomboy,

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it wasn't like that was ever a priority.

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And so you talk about this kind of old,

older model of traditional masculinity

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and my take on it is it's, we don't have

to throw that old model out the window.

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There's a lot of beauty and strength in

it, that protecting, providing, serving,

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there's a need for that still today.

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I think where there's a space and

an opportunity and where I would

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like my work to fill the gaps is in

this emotional intelligence piece.

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This old model isn't working.

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And the evidence is showing from this

loneliness epidemic that we're facing.

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And we saw it coming out of the

world wars and the amount of

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PTSD that men came home with.

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That was like the first time mental

health was really acknowledged

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in a lot of male communities.

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But we see a similar pattern

coming out of the COVID pandemic.

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There's a tremendous uptick in mental

health cases and in needs and issues.

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And so all of this information

really pointing just, you, you

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alluded to it, the men are four

times more likely to die by suicide.

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There's so many other statistics

that are highlighting this.

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Loneliness epidemic that men

are going through, and I believe

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women have been doing their part.

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Women are so much stronger in emotional

intelligence and are way ahead of us,

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but there is an opportunity for men

to really step into this space with

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emotional intelligence, to lean to the

discomfort, to grow that muscle, and

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to take the old model and build on it

in this way that our boys need us to.

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Elaine Lindsay: That, that's, You

hit the most critical piece yet.

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We're not throwing the baby

out with the bathwater, okay?

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Our men can still be strong and

be leaders and be all the things

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that they are, but they need to

be all the things they can be.

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And that means also mental health,

but you're absolutely right.

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Even in the best families.

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Okay, even I would say not even 10

years ago, mental health was not the

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first thing out of anyone's mouth

because, for a lot of people, the

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stigma and the shame is horrific.

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And therefore, that's

why we have the silence.

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But, I've said this so many times when

the end of the 60s beginning of the 70s.

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There was a song on the radio called

We're Coming to Take You Away Ha

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Hee Ho to the funny farm where

life is beautiful all the time.

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The fact that we were getting that,

like with top 40 music and telling

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people Like, whoa, you don't want

to, you don't want to let people

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know what's going on in your head.

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There was no specifically targeted at

men, because there was no cognizance

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even, that men had mental health or

for that matter, women were histrionic.

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Women were just, they showed

their emotions too much.

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And it's almost like somewhere, Over the

centuries, there was no middle ground.

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It was either show all your

emotions or show nothing.

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And that divide, I think, is

what sort of caused where we

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are today and how extreme it is.

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Yeah, we want people to have all the

pieces and there is another issue

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that you and I are not going to know

anything about, but culturally, there

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is an awful lot of added stigma that

often comes from within the family.

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It comes from within the culture,

the community, and in, in many

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cases, also within the religion.

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It's, you're expected to suffer in

silence and I don't think suffering in

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silence is useful for anyone at any time.

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Ethan Getchell: Absolutely.

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And my, my studies and passions and

even grief journey, it wasn't, I

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didn't intentionally try to go into

gender studies or like male studies.

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It just became evident from my studies

and passion with grief and depression.

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And I was sitting in U of M school social

work, number one school, social work in

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the U S there are 300 students in my class

and they're probably 10 guys, 10 men.

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And so looking around from a clinician

standpoint, there aren't a lot of.

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Men providing in the space, so there's not

a lot of men contributing to the research.

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So there are, there's

a high demand for it.

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And this is where my business

background comes into play.

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I see the demand for it and

I see the lack of supply.

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So then I really see myself as

a piece of that to try to help.

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And I think as I get into it, it becomes

overwhelming how great the need is.

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And so it.

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It encourages me to keep doing it,

but it also pushes me to encourage

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other men to step up and do the same.

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And I'm really happy with my therapy

practice, but I even tell people, I

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think in a perfect world, we wouldn't

have therapists because you would have.

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Supportive parents, supportive

siblings, friends, community members.

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You'd have enough of that to

where it would fill the gap

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where that need of therapy is.

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Unfortunately that's

not the reality today.

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And there's a lot of legitimacy for

therapy, a lot of evidence based practice.

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And, but the, a lot of the

space that we create is just.

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a space of vulnerability and empathy.

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And there's so much power in that work.

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And I've noticed from

the work that I've done.

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And yet it's a space that my patients

are like, I've never had this before.

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I haven't had a space to unprocessed,

just to say whatever is on my mind to

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have someone who's listening actively

and 100 percent and empathizing.

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And I'm grateful to provide that,

but I'm also just blown away

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that there isn't more of that.

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Elaine Lindsay: And

that's such a good point.

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And, never thought of

you're absolutely right.

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We.

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We want to get to a world where we

don't need therapists because our

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circle, our community, our tribe is

doing that with us and for us, those

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that we surround ourselves with.

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And

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I think it's really important

to get that message across.

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But also get it across to women that we

have to have the vulnerable conversations

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about the men in our lives being

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because it can be uncomfortable.

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I'm a baby boomer.

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Okay, like I'm way older than you.

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And coming from a military family.

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My father was in, in the military

in Britain and then the military

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in Canada, and then he was a

United Nations peacekeeper.

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So there were a lot of things that

he wouldn't say, but that he couldn't

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say about, he did two tours in Gaza

and he spent 13 months in Yemen in aid

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when he was in the British Air Force.

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They were expected to just do their job.

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There weren't mental health workers I very

much doubt there were even psychiatrists

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on staff with the military back then.

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Because it wasn't on the list of

things that were important, okay?

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It was always just a suck it up.

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And yeah, we need to get rid of it.

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That all of those comments, all of

those things that denigrate emotions.

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And being vulnerable because I think that

is the most honest a human being can be.

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And it is such a gift to those

around you when you trust

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them enough to be vulnerable.

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Ethan Getchell: Yeah, and context matters.

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So like for your dad's situation, it

made sense for him to not be overly

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emotional because if you Slowed down, you

could die literally in the battlefield.

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When you take yourself out of that and

put yourself in a different context.

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Now you're in a family household

and you're raising young boys.

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It feels like we're still applying

that go to battle mentality.

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But there's not a war that we're fighting

in these things that we're this armor

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that we're putting on is really doing more

detriment to the health of these young

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boys versus inspiring these strengths of

emotional intelligence and vulnerability

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on top of protecting providing serving.

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Elaine Lindsay: Yeah, absolutely.

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And my father wasn't old enough.

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To be in any of the wars he mostly

did peacekeeping services in the

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Middle East and all of that was

about peacekeeping and yet there is,

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there was no vulnerability in that.

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I think they would have

gotten a lot farther.

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With their peacekeeping and with

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general if the tactics included being

vulnerable with those that you were at

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odds with, I think they all would have

gotten and I think that to this day, but

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there's so much posturing and so much,

puffing up to to show the masculinity.

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It's sad.

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It's really sad that is where we place

the I guess the importance, if you

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: 00:24:19

will, of that sort of masculinity and in

fact, vulnerability is number one, that

306

: 00:24:28

should be considered one, the height of

emotional intelligence, but it should be

307

: 00:24:35

the first thing that you teach young boys.

308

: 00:24:40

Because if you start with mental health

when they're children, I think we would

309

: 00:24:47

have much more well rounded little humans.

310

: 00:24:51

And when you know and feel safe

to be able to have feelings.

311

: 00:24:58

It makes life a lot different.

312

: 00:25:02

I'm not saying it solves

everything, because it doesn't.

313

: 00:25:05

And I think it will take us a very

long time, but I do believe what

314

: 00:25:12

you're saying about having no need

of therapists, because those around

315

: 00:25:20

us provide those services by virtue

of the fact that they are around us.

316

: 00:25:27

As we will provide for them, and

it's unfortunate, but again, it's not

317

: 00:25:35

something that's taught in school.

318

: 00:25:38

Ethan Getchell: Yeah, and like

I said, I went to Hope College,

319

: 00:25:42

and their symbol was an anchor.

320

: 00:25:45

And universally, hope is symbolized

through an anchor quite often, and I like

321

: 00:25:53

that symbolism of thinking about hope.

322

: 00:25:58

And it can seem like this abstract

concept, but it can really be tangible

323

: 00:26:04

and practicable and practical when

we think about it as the things that

324

: 00:26:10

ground us and anchor us in the storm,

in the grief, in the depression, in

325

: 00:26:15

the things that we're going through.

326

: 00:26:17

And especially when we're talking

about these things like emotional

327

: 00:26:20

intelligence, vulnerability, where

do I start with my son and my kid?

328

: 00:26:26

You can start with personal reflection

on what are the anchors in your own

329

: 00:26:31

life that keep you grounded, whether

that's your faith, your family

330

: 00:26:35

name, values that you have, and then

teaching those and instilling those.

331

: 00:26:42

Into your kids and helping them build

their own anchors so that when the

332

: 00:26:49

storms come they have things that

keep them grounded and keep them here.

333

: 00:26:53

Elaine Lindsay: That's beautiful.

334

: 00:26:54

And it's funny, the my mother and.

335

: 00:27:00

As a child, I lived on the edge of

the city of Leith, which is kind

336

: 00:27:06

of part of Edinburgh, but in the

square in Leith, there's a giant

337

: 00:27:12

anchor and that's my whole life.

338

: 00:27:16

That's, I always knew that because it's a

seaside town, but never thought of it as.

339

: 00:27:24

Yeah, that, that's the hope

that it was also people who had,

340

: 00:27:29

people that worked on the ships.

341

: 00:27:32

The anchor was where they came back to.

342

: 00:27:34

They always wanted them

to be able to come back.

343

: 00:27:38

And yeah, that's absolutely hope.

344

: 00:27:42

That's beautiful.

345

: 00:27:49

In

346

: 00:27:49

In light of losing Austin at 16,

347

: 00:27:54

in retrospect with the family, Was

there, were there any sort of clues

348

: 00:28:03

that Or clues you thought you saw later.

349

: 00:28:08

Hindsight is always 2020, as they say,

350

: 00:28:16

is there, or is there any,

351

: 00:28:22

I don't know, signs you think might

be useful for people to watch out

352

: 00:28:27

for specifically in young men?

353

: 00:28:33

Ethan Getchell: Yeah, I think one of

the Pieces that my family talks about

354

: 00:28:38

and reflects on is just how much time

he spent alone, my middle brother,

355

: 00:28:46

Hayden and I, we were always around

video games, but we never really

356

: 00:28:53

got into it as much as Austin did.

357

: 00:28:55

He really loved.

358

: 00:28:57

Video games and technology.

359

: 00:28:59

And so he would spend hours

in his room, in the basement,

360

: 00:29:04

connecting with these friends.

361

: 00:29:05

And that was part of his justification

for it was he was online with his buddies,

362

: 00:29:11

but then he was also in this basement

alone by himself and his room by himself.

363

: 00:29:16

And we would have weekend wrestling

tournaments that I would be

364

: 00:29:21

participating in and he would

choose to stay home during them.

365

: 00:29:25

And so he would spend entire days.

366

: 00:29:28

home by himself.

367

: 00:29:30

And there again we did the best that we

could with the information that we had.

368

: 00:29:37

There wasn't, and I feel like

there's only starting to be.

369

: 00:29:42

Information on the

consequences of technology.

370

: 00:29:46

And at that time when it was

first coming out, it was a great

371

: 00:29:50

tool to get kids to keep them

entertained and keep them distracted.

372

: 00:29:56

But we're starting to see a lot

of research coming out about the.

373

: 00:30:01

Consequences of emotional

dysregulation and the lack of

374

: 00:30:06

development that comes from spending

so much time in front of a screen.

375

: 00:30:11

And so we do wonder, and we're

curious about just that amount

376

: 00:30:15

of time that he spent alone.

377

: 00:30:17

And was that time that he's spending

online with friends, was that truly

378

: 00:30:23

fostering connection or was it underlying?

379

: 00:30:27

Was it making him more lonely?

380

: 00:30:29

Elaine Lindsay: And not because

traditionally we don't allow or

381

: 00:30:35

encourage our boys and men to examine

their feelings, then, he probably.

382

: 00:30:48

Didn't really think about the loneliness

so much until it, it became probably

383

: 00:30:55

more consuming than we can imagine.

384

: 00:30:59

But it's like anything else,

technology and even social

385

: 00:31:03

media, there are good things.

386

: 00:31:07

It's not just, it was a great way to

babysit your kids, but it was actually

387

: 00:31:13

really good for fine motor skills.

388

: 00:31:16

And there is good in, in kids playing

video games because some children

389

: 00:31:22

are not as coordinated as they can

be, and using video games gives

390

: 00:31:28

them better fine motor control.

391

: 00:31:31

My daughter in law is a personal trainer.

392

: 00:31:36

And they have two boys.

393

: 00:31:39

They do not have an off switch.

394

: 00:31:42

These Children are, they go million

miles an hour, but they love video

395

: 00:31:48

games and the rule in their house.

396

: 00:31:52

They can only play video games.

397

: 00:31:54

When they're on the trampoline,

398

: 00:31:58

so that they are actually getting

some exercise, and there must be equal

399

: 00:32:03

time spent outside, which I think is

wonderful, because it's up to us to make

400

: 00:32:13

the effort to change things, and talking

about your feelings with the boys.

401

: 00:32:20

And all little boys, I think,

is critically important

402

: 00:32:29

because we even used to approach a

little boy fell down and hurt himself.

403

: 00:32:35

I told him to get up,

be a man, dust it off.

404

: 00:32:39

Boys don't cry.

405

: 00:32:41

A little girl was told, aw,

poor you, and given a cookie.

406

: 00:32:48

Or something else to stop the crying.

407

: 00:32:52

So there was no, we all did the best we

could when we didn't know any better.

408

: 00:33:02

But that wasn't so great for young women

either, who developed other issues.

409

: 00:33:12

When, when something terrible

happens, most women will tell

410

: 00:33:17

you they'll go for the ice cream.

411

: 00:33:20

Because, we condition our

children to do these things.

412

: 00:33:27

And I think it's important that

we also get out the message

413

: 00:33:33

that we teach all children.

414

: 00:33:39

All emotions are valid.

415

: 00:33:42

They don't stuff any of them down.

416

: 00:33:44

You need to feel those emotions and

you need to share them with someone.

417

: 00:33:51

Because you're absolutely right.

418

: 00:33:54

The loneliness.

419

: 00:33:56

the feeling alone, and that

can be in a crowded room.

420

: 00:34:01

If you truly don't feel connection,

it doesn't really matter where

421

: 00:34:09

you are or who you're with.

422

: 00:34:11

And building on, making our emotions

more a part of everyday life, rather

423

: 00:34:21

than stuffing them down or hiding them

or changing them or what have you,

424

: 00:34:26

but making them a part of your day

will give our children more impetus

425

: 00:34:33

to, to examine those things and not

leave them in this little world of

426

: 00:34:42

themselves, no matter where they are.

427

: 00:34:46

You said it early on

about imposter syndrome,

428

: 00:34:52

and it doesn't matter how many

accolades, how many awards how

429

: 00:34:56

lauded we are for what we do.

430

: 00:34:59

And that is a part of the human condition.

431

: 00:35:06

It doesn't matter who you are.

432

: 00:35:09

I think everyone has gone

through this at some point.

433

: 00:35:13

And I think it's something that we

need to acknowledge for children.

434

: 00:35:19

People go no, they have

time to deal with that.

435

: 00:35:22

But no, it's part of that emotional

gamut that we run every day.

436

: 00:35:29

The best way to handle things

is to know what they are and

437

: 00:35:34

know that there are options.

438

: 00:35:38

And if we don't discuss

them, then nobody knows.

439

: 00:35:45

Ethan Getchell: Absolutely.

440

: 00:35:46

I'm a big fan of Richard Reeves.

441

: 00:35:49

He's an economist and he wrote

this book of boys and men, which

442

: 00:35:52

really lays out this landscape of

the current state of boys and men.

443

: 00:35:58

And one of the things he talks about

is, and one of the things we've

444

: 00:36:03

been talking about is comparing.

445

: 00:36:04

Young boys to the older traditional

model of masculinity, but then also

446

: 00:36:10

comparing boys to their counterparts,

female counterparts to women.

447

: 00:36:15

And a lot of the conversation is, okay,

how do we make boys either more like

448

: 00:36:20

their sisters or more like their dads?

449

: 00:36:22

And so there's not really a

model today that just lifts up

450

: 00:36:25

young men and for who they are.

451

: 00:36:28

And so I think there's this

real opportunity again.

452

: 00:36:31

Not to throw out the old model

of traditional masculinity.

453

: 00:36:34

There's a piece of that, that it's there.

454

: 00:36:37

There's a piece of empowering women today.

455

: 00:36:40

That's important.

456

: 00:36:41

And we don't need to neglect

that or throw that away.

457

: 00:36:44

We can hold all of these things while

uplifting young men today and creating a

458

: 00:36:50

space so that they don't get left behind.

459

: 00:36:55

Elaine Lindsay: Absolutely.

460

: 00:36:55

And to that point, okay, the hormones

that, that hormone soup that by

461

: 00:37:02

the time you're a teenager is.

462

: 00:37:03

Just boiling over in all areas,

we have both masculine and

463

: 00:37:10

feminine traits in the hormones.

464

: 00:37:13

Testosterone and estrogen, it

doesn't matter whether you're a

465

: 00:37:17

man or a woman, you have both.

466

: 00:37:20

And I think that's part of

accepting that, understanding that

467

: 00:37:26

and pulling all the best traits.

468

: 00:37:31

Of men and women together and

allowing us all to sample those so

469

: 00:37:38

that we understand a little better

the opposite sex, understand why, how

470

: 00:37:49

we feel as women, our counterparts

need to be able to feel as well.

471

: 00:37:56

They need to be able to go through these

things and not have to hide it, not

472

: 00:38:01

feel they have to hide it, not feel that

somehow or other it makes them less than.

473

: 00:38:08

And you're absolutely right.

474

: 00:38:10

It's not about denying the masculinity

because that just doesn't make any sense.

475

: 00:38:18

Okay.

476

: 00:38:19

In every.

477

: 00:38:20

Form of life you will see, the female

lion, the male lion they have different

478

: 00:38:26

traits because they have different jobs

and even, zebras and fish and whatever,

479

: 00:38:33

they all have these pieces to them.

480

: 00:38:36

And

481

: 00:38:40

it's interesting that to me, the

biggest issue we have as humans.

482

: 00:38:49

was brought by one of the greatest

things we use, and that's language.

483

: 00:38:57

If you think of all the animals,

they don't speak, and they don't

484

: 00:39:04

have these kinds of issues.

485

: 00:39:08

And that's very simplistic, I know.

486

: 00:39:11

But my point is, it is We've

given ourselves this huge bonus

487

: 00:39:18

of language and being able to

understand and learn about others.

488

: 00:39:24

We, we need to fully utilize our language

to make life better for ourselves.

489

: 00:39:36

Ethan Getchell: Absolutely.

490

: 00:39:40

Elaine Lindsay: So if you could,

491

: 00:39:46

if you were given the

task of starting now.

492

: 00:39:52

And getting a more well rounded,

let's call it a program, for

493

: 00:40:00

humans, starting with our men.

494

: 00:40:06

Where would you start and

what do you think would be the

495

: 00:40:10

most important step to begin?

496

: 00:40:15

Ethan Getchell: That's

an interesting question.

497

: 00:40:16

I like it.

498

: 00:40:18

It really makes me think about the life

experiences that I've had in tying in.

499

: 00:40:27

A lot of different pieces from a lot

of different programs in high school,

500

: 00:40:32

I wrestled and I went to this J.

501

: 00:40:35

Robinson intensive wrestling camp

and it was 10 days and it was

502

: 00:40:41

mostly these young boys and they

had this curriculum, this book.

503

: 00:40:46

And you would journal each day

you journal your nutrition, you

504

: 00:40:50

would journal how you're feeling.

505

: 00:40:53

It had some inspirational quotes, but a

lot of the ideas around it were discipline

506

: 00:40:59

and responsibility and service and.

507

: 00:41:04

So I think I would bring

in a piece of that.

508

: 00:41:07

If I were starting a program,

there would be a challenge piece.

509

: 00:41:10

There would be, you'd use, you would

do something difficult because in

510

: 00:41:14

that pursuit, in the failure, you

learn lessons, you build resilience,

511

: 00:41:19

and then there would be a time of.

512

: 00:41:22

I went, I did a May term in Alaska and we,

in the evenings, we would sit around the

513

: 00:41:27

fire and we would have, we would talk and

some nights there were prompted questions.

514

: 00:41:33

Other nights there weren't, but

some of my deepest vulnerability

515

: 00:41:37

and some of my favorite memories

were just sitting around campfires.

516

: 00:41:40

So there would be a piece of that

where at the end of the day we're

517

: 00:41:44

reflecting and we're sharing memories.

518

: 00:41:48

We're sharing.

519

: 00:41:48

vulnerable.

520

: 00:41:51

So I would tie those two pieces together.

521

: 00:41:54

And then I'm, I think the last piece

and it ties into my time in therapy.

522

: 00:42:03

And now as a therapist, I think there

would be a piece of writing your story

523

: 00:42:09

as well or how you conceptualize.

524

: 00:42:11

your story.

525

: 00:42:12

What is your purpose?

526

: 00:42:13

Like, why are you here?

527

: 00:42:15

And so in the background of this program,

there would be check ins and you would

528

: 00:42:20

be asked the question, like, why were

you born and what is your purpose here?

529

: 00:42:25

And in that wrestling you're telling

this to 10 to 15 year old kids seem

530

: 00:42:32

overwhelming, but at the same time,

it, what we're doing is we're building

531

: 00:42:36

all these different kinds of anchors.

532

: 00:42:38

And so in wrestling with those

questions, You start to learn what

533

: 00:42:41

grounds you and what your passions

are and what your purpose is.

534

: 00:42:46

And so I think between those three

things, we could play with and put

535

: 00:42:50

together a pretty good program.

536

: 00:42:53

Elaine Lindsay: Oh, that is excellent.

537

: 00:42:55

What an excellent answer.

538

: 00:42:57

I wasn't sure I was going to

get that question out right.

539

: 00:43:00

And obviously I did because

you answered that amazingly.

540

: 00:43:07

So one thing I think that we need

to Maybe chat about is let's talk.

541

: 00:43:14

Let's talk about your book.

542

: 00:43:18

Ethan Getchell: Yeah, absolutely.

543

: 00:43:20

I I've always enjoyed

writing and journaling.

544

: 00:43:23

And so it started because I had

a few pieces just independently

545

: 00:43:29

written on my computer.

546

: 00:43:31

And then that trip to

Alaska that May term.

547

: 00:43:36

Part of that, the credit that we were

getting was to write our like capstone

548

: 00:43:40

paper for our undergraduate studies

and the theme was transitions in life.

549

: 00:43:46

And so you had to just write

about different transitions

550

: 00:43:48

you've been through and how they

impacted you, what you learned.

551

: 00:43:52

And my brother had just passed

away a few months prior.

552

: 00:43:56

So it was very therapeutic.

553

: 00:43:59

It was very healing for

me to continue writing.

554

: 00:44:03

And I finished writing it and had some

friends edit it and read through it.

555

: 00:44:08

They pushed me.

556

: 00:44:09

They were like, Ethan,

have you ever thought about

557

: 00:44:11

publishing this and sharing it?

558

: 00:44:14

And so I really took that to heart

and I published it as, and I say

559

: 00:44:19

I'm practicing what I preach.

560

: 00:44:21

It's a book that's very vulnerable

and sharing about the things that

561

: 00:44:24

I went through my grief journey and

a letter that I wrote to Austin.

562

: 00:44:28

I share that and I share it.

563

: 00:44:30

The book is less.

564

: 00:44:32

specific tools and skills for you,

but more for you to see my grief

565

: 00:44:39

and reflection and invulnerability

practice and to allow you to have

566

: 00:44:44

space to reflect on your own through

it's called things in my pocket.

567

: 00:44:47

So it's 10 things that I carry

in my pocket and the stories and

568

: 00:44:51

lessons associated with them.

569

: 00:44:53

And so those 10 things were Was my red

thread and how I was able to pull in all

570

: 00:44:58

these different stories from stories of

my brothers and I growing up to sports

571

: 00:45:03

to college and to losing my brother.

572

: 00:45:06

And so there's all these

different fun stories.

573

: 00:45:08

And so it, it's been like

my extended business card.

574

: 00:45:13

Music Intro: Yeah,

575

: 00:45:14

Ethan Getchell: because I just

self published it on Kindle and on.

576

: 00:45:18

Now it's on Amazon but I would like

to write another book that's more

577

: 00:45:23

on the practical side, that's more

giving skills and tools one day.

578

: 00:45:29

Elaine Lindsay: Absolutely

I know you will.

579

: 00:45:31

I absolutely know you will.

580

: 00:45:34

We've added a link a short

link so it's easy to get to.

581

: 00:45:38

The link that's Ethan's book

will take you right to Amazon.

582

: 00:45:42

So that you too, can get the book.

583

: 00:45:45

And this is not just for men women.

584

: 00:45:52

It's really important that not only can

you offer a listening ear so the men

585

: 00:46:00

in your life can be vulnerable, so you

can teach your sons to be vulnerable,

586

: 00:46:06

but I think it's really important.

587

: 00:46:09

What a great way to start.

588

: 00:46:12

Is to purchase the book for the man in

your life, or the boys in your life, so

589

: 00:46:19

that they can understand what it is that

you want them to incorporate in their

590

: 00:46:27

lives, because we're not programmed to

be vulnerable, being vulnerable, like

591

: 00:46:37

everything else in our heads, we have that

lizard brain, vulnerable means possible.

592

: 00:46:44

Sabretooth tiger food.

593

: 00:46:46

You're about to be eaten.

594

: 00:46:47

You're done for and that I think is part

of why being vulnerable is such a fear

595

: 00:46:57

for humans and more so in, of course

our Our hunters, those who helped, feed

596

: 00:47:05

the tribe over time, they didn't have

the opportunity to be vulnerable when

597

: 00:47:11

they were searching for food because

the food was searching for them.

598

: 00:47:16

And, as much as I'm being a little

flippant there, I think it's really

599

: 00:47:22

important to not just say, You're

going to support somebody in their

600

: 00:47:27

vulnerability, but I think it's really

important to show them in different

601

: 00:47:33

ways how you really do mean that.

602

: 00:47:38

And on that note, I just, I

have to say thank you so much.

603

: 00:47:42

You are such a wise man.

604

: 00:47:46

I was going to say young man.

605

: 00:47:47

I'm not going to say that

you're just a wise man.

606

: 00:47:51

And I am so honored and thankful that

you came on the show sharing our stories.

607

: 00:47:59

Do offer hope.

608

: 00:48:02

And I know that every

time we share our story.

609

: 00:48:07

We lighten our burden just a little,

so it's beneficial to the audience,

610

: 00:48:13

it's beneficial to us when we talk

about our stories in our lives,

611

: 00:48:21

and I think it's beneficial that we

also make a point of always saying

612

: 00:48:29

those we've lost names, and Austin.

613

: 00:48:34

Is now part of the show and I'm

very grateful to have met you and to

614

: 00:48:44

get to hear what you're about now.

615

: 00:48:48

And I can only say that I'm really

looking forward to the second book.

616

: 00:48:53

Ethan Getchell: Thank you.

617

: 00:48:54

I appreciate this space that

you've created in your time today.

618

: 00:48:59

Elaine Lindsay: Thank you.

619

: 00:49:03

Is there one thing you'd like

to leave the audience with?

620

: 00:49:06

Either something they can turn into a

daily practice or something you do on the

621

: 00:49:13

regular, a little tip to keep yourself

anchored, to keep that hope alive.

622

: 00:49:21

Ethan Getchell: Yeah, I think reflecting

on what those anchors are in your own

623

: 00:49:26

life, writing those down and recognizing

that those are anchors of hope.

624

: 00:49:36

They can inspire you to do great,

incredible things, but they can also

625

: 00:49:41

just help you wake up in the morning.

626

: 00:49:43

I think writing those down and

being aware of those is important.

627

: 00:49:48

Elaine Lindsay: Ah, that's

absolutely beautiful.

628

: 00:49:52

I'm Elaine Lindsay.

629

: 00:49:54

This is Suicides and Forgiveness.

630

: 00:49:58

We will be back again next week, and

until that time, let me say thank you

631

: 00:50:03

so much to Ethan for coming on the show,

and make the most of your today, every

632

: 00:50:11

day, and we'll see you again next time.

633

: 00:50:18

Voiceover: Thank you for being

here for another inspiring episode

634

: 00:50:21

of Suicide Zen Forgiveness.

635

: 00:50:22

We appreciate you tuning in.

636

: 00:50:25

Please subscribe and download on your

favorite service and check out SZF's

637

: 00:50:29

YouTube channel or Facebook community.

638

: 00:50:31

If you have the chance to leave

a five star rating or review,

639

: 00:50:34

it'd be greatly appreciated.

640

: 00:50:36

Please refer this to a friend you

know who may benefit from the hope

641

: 00:50:40

and inspiration from our guests.

642

: 00:50:42

Suicide Zen Forgiveness was brought

to you by the following sponsors.

643

: 00:50:47

TROOL Social Media, the digital

integration specialists.

644

: 00:50:51

Let them get you rockin page

one in the search results.

645

: 00:50:54

Canada's Keynote Humorist, Judy Croon.

646

: 00:50:57

Motivational speaker, comedian, author,

and stand up coach at Second City.

647

: 00:51:01

Judy has been involved for over

a decade in the City Street

648

: 00:51:04

Outreach Program in Toronto.

649

: 00:51:06

Elaine Lindsay: The

Ultimate Podcasting Pack.

650

: 00:51:10

This is great for you if you're

just starting your podcast, or if

651

: 00:51:15

you've been running it for a while.

652

: 00:51:17

It's filled with tools, templates,

and trainings for starting, growing,

653

: 00:51:21

and monetizing your podcast.

654

: 00:51:24

Get access to time saving systems

and strategies for accelerating

655

: 00:51:29

your process at each step.

656

: 00:51:31

Find new connections and collaborations

in the uplifting podcasting community.

657

: 00:51:38

I look forward to seeing you there.

658

: 00:51:41

Voiceover: Do you have a story to share?

659

: 00:51:44

Do you know someone you

think would be a great guest?

660

: 00:51:48

Please go to SZF42.

661

: 00:51:50

com and for our American

listeners, that's SZF42.

662

: 00:51:54

com.

663

: 00:51:56

Thank you for listening and

we hope to see you again.