Beyond Amish Heritage: Overcoming and Thriving

Elaine Lindsay: 00:00:02

It's so nice to be back.

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I am very excited today to introduce

you to my guest, Rebekah Hope.

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Thank you for being with us, Rebekah.

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Rebekah Hope: Thank you for having me.

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Elaine Lindsay: It's heading into winter.

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We've just been chatting

about the weather.

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And I must admit, as

usual, I'm a little cold.

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I'm always a little cold these days.

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With that said, I would like us to

get right to finding out a little

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bit more about Rebekah before

we dive into our conversation.

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So how about you give us a little update

about who you are and what you do?

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Rebekah Hope: Yeah.

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So talking about the snow, I grew up in

Michigan where we used to shovel our way

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out of the house every winter morning.

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Also I grew up on a dairy farm.

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So yes, in the middle of nowhere, Michigan

I grew up, actually grew up Amish.

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My parents, my family,

they're still Amish.

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I am not, I left about 12 years ago.

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And when I left, I moved to Minnesota,

which wasn't much warmer than Michigan.

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Still a lot of snow.

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And then in 2018, I moved to

Tennessee and the first thing my

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dad said was you just couldn't

handle the cold anymore, could you?

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To that, I would say, Dad, I have not

been able to stand the cold for 20 years.

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So

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that is the number one of the main reasons

I moved here was because of the cold.

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I have never really cared for it.

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As we were talking, Off camera

if it snowed just on Christmas

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day, like that would be perfect.

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Have a white Christmas and then go

back to the fifties like we have today.

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So that would be good.

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But yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell.

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Elaine Lindsay: Oh I really like that.

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And it's something I just want to, I

want to mention because it's interesting

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that I find, is it, is there a

dialect that goes with being Amish?

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Rebekah Hope: So yes, I

would say a German dialect.

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I did not learn English

until I went to school.

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I grew up, our spoken language Is

what they call Pennsylvania Dutch.

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And then everything relating to

their religion was in high German.

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So I learned to speak some high German

spoken language was Pennsylvania Dutch.

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And then I learned English.

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When I was six years old

and started going to school,

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Elaine Lindsay: Thank

you so much for that.

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I think it's very interesting to me that's

not something that people talk about.

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But I think I come from Scotland.

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My, my father, who is going

on 92 still has an accent like

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he got off the boat yesterday.

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I went to school in Canada from

kindergarten on, so I sound Canadian,

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although Canadians say I say certain

things a little differently, but

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I always found I have an ear for

accents because I'm so used to them.

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And I know a number of Amish

people, but from different areas.

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And I thought it's interesting.

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Cause to me, there's always that accent.

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Like I have friends that are

South African and I know a South

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African accent and I know a German

accent and the French accent.

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Rebekah Hope: So I have one,

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Elaine Lindsay: an Amish accent.

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Absolutely.

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Rebekah Hope: Really?

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I have tried so hard to get rid of that.

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Elaine Lindsay: Beautiful.

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Its beautiful

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Rebekah Hope: when I first

left, I was made fun of.

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It a lot.

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Because I spoke very broken

English, German and English.

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Their sentences are very backwards.

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So I used to not say the sentences in a

proper way because it was so backwards.

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English was so backwards because

I was made fun of a lot for that.

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I tried to get rid of it.

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Elaine Lindsay: That's really awful

to me because I think I love the

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lilt of the different accents.

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And in fact, the German

accent is much more guttural.

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It is a much more staccato language.

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than a lot of languages.

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It doesn't flow, but I think the

Pennsylvania Dutch lends that lilt

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to the high German that you use.

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So I it's just me, but I

think it's very pretty.

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Rebekah Hope: Why,

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thank you.

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Elaine Lindsay: You're very welcome.

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Rebekah Hope: I have definitely

learned to embrace the, my Amish

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upbringing instead of hiding it,

which I used to hide it pretty well.

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I had friends for years that

didn't even know I grew up Amish

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because that's how much I hated it.

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But I have a few years ago.

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It started when I published my book in

: 2019

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I just, I started embracing that where I'm

like, you know what, this is a part of me.

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And if I deny that, then I'm denying a

part of myself that the reality of it

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is that's always going to be a part of

me, whether I am still living it or not.

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So

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Elaine Lindsay: absolutely.

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And I think we'll talk about

your experiences growing up

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Amish, but I firmly believe that.

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All of the pieces of us all of the

familial pieces, all of the different

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traditions and dialects and what

have you are all a part of us.

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And we can only fully be who we are

when we embrace all those parts.

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Rebekah Hope: Yes, that's

that is now what I stand for.

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That's what I do in my life coaching

because I found it for myself.

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And that's why I became super

passionate about helping others

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find that for themselves as well.

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Very much.

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Elaine Lindsay: That's

absolutely beautiful.

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So with that said, let's dive into

the meat of why we're here today.

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Let's do it.

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And you can choose to start

your story wherever you'd like.

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Rebekah Hope: I know your platform

is a lot on suicide prevention and

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people of stories about maybe having

attempted or know somebody who did.

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Just up front, I am a two

time suicide survivor.

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It suicidal ideations started for me

when I was around eight years old.

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That's the early memory I have of it.

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And I just remember finding my escape,

looking out the bedroom window, just

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visualizing myself jumping off of my

dad's silo and thinking that it would

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look like an accident, and therefore

Nobody could call me, a coward

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for ending my life kind of thing.

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But that is where my thoughts went.

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That's very much where I found my escape.

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Just seeing it as an

option if I needed to.

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And even though that's where I found

comfort, it was, an escape for me.

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There was also a part of

me that just felt like.

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something wasn't right about it.

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I would make comments about you guys

would be better off without me or

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just subtle comments to my siblings,

or I think even to my mom sometimes.

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And the response was always like,

While you're crazy to even say that,

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like, why would you even say that?

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And that's you shouldn't say

that it was very dismissive and

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very much left me feeling like I

was crazy for even saying that.

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I do believe was also part of why

I'm going, so this isn't normal.

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It isn't.

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Not everybody has this.

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So when I was 17 years old,

I chose to leave the Amish.

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I chose to no longer live

within the Amish religion.

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And because of the way I was raised,

I was educated in a way that.

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How would I say it?

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It was intentional to keep me

within the Amish community.

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And that's the only place

I am able to survive.

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That, that was the intention of

the, my entire childhood education.

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So as you can imagine, a 17 year

old who was already suicidal, very

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much lost, trapped in an eating

disorder leaving everyone she knew.

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You can probably imagine how that went

as far as Being able to even survive,

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but I will say I had a very resilient

spirit and I remember the morning that

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I left, it was a cold February morning

and again, Michigan snowy, cold I just

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remember thinking if this is the end,

then so be it, because I would rather

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die than live in this one more day.

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I just couldn't because of things

that were going on in the home.

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The perceptions I had of what

my family thought about me

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and the community at large.

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I didn't really have any friends.

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There was a lot of abuse going on in

the home and just different things like

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that, that all contributed to this.

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So when I left, again, that meant I was

shunned, my family disowned me, and,

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again, the education part, I had no

tools, I had no means of, this is how you

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survive outside the Amish community it

definitely took a lot of resilience, a lot

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of courage for me to survive that, but,

It was trying to remember the exact date.

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I just know it was the following year.

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So a little over a year after I had left

the Amish that I had my first attempt.

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And again, trying to be creative where I

wanted to make it look like an accident.

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And I just remember being in the

hospital bed and I was so mad because

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I realized that I had survived it and

give you a little bit of a visual.

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I ran my car off the road.

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I was going around 80 miles

an hour in a, in an area.

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It was a country road where the speed

limit was 45 going around a curb.

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And I just made a sharp right into the

ditch and I had actually seen a tree and

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I thought it was going to hit it, And,

long story short, I survived it, but the

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car rolled lengthwise, and then rolled

three times, and if you look at the

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car today, I don't know how I survived.

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It was yeah there, I shouldn't

have survived that, but I did.

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And I remember coming out of that

going, there's gotta be a bigger

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purpose to my life this because I just

can't keep going like this thinking

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there's no purpose to my being here.

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I really truly believed I was a mistake

because from a very young age, I also

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believed that my parents wanted me.

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To be a boy, they expect me to be a boy.

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And again, backstory on the Amish, my,

my dad bought a dairy, a hundred acre

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dairy farm five months before I was born.

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So my mom was already pregnant with

me and they already had three girls.

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I am, I'm the fourth of eight kids.

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And now if that true or not, whether

they really wanted me to be a

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boy or not, or expected me to be.

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I have never asked them that.

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That is just what I perceived

growing up and how I felt.

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So again, I w I was the wrong gender.

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And then I was I was an outcast.

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I was the black sheep of the family and

now I am not even in the family anymore.

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So what really purpose

do I have to be here?

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That's what it's gotten to.

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And I remember it was one night and

I should also reference, I I am a

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born again follower of Jesus Christ.

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I found Jesus when I it was shortly

after I had left the Amish actually

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before this happened, which also I think

contributed to my anger on why I survived

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because I was like, Lord, why would

you let me live if I have to suffer?

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So now, I was blaming God for this, but

10 years later, I do know that it wasn't,

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God saved me, but he didn't create me

to be on this earth, just to suffer.

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I know that for a fact now, because

I felt my purpose and my calling.

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But at that time I very much

did not know what that was.

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I didn't, again, didn't have that

community, didn't have that support.

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I didn't have anybody to lead

me or just show me the way.

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So yeah, that's wow.

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It's a lot for you to go

through as a child even before

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we get to your teen years.

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To be eight years old and to already be

burdened by feeling that you don't belong

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and feeling that they would have preferred

you to be a different gender, that's an

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awful lot of stuff to put on a child.

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Now, whether they did.

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put it on you or you put it on you.

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It really doesn't matter at this point.

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The fact is, you were shouldering

that burden and that is

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much too much for a child.

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The fact that it took a year after you

left the community, For you to get to a

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place where you thought it best just to

exit, I want to say that speaks to your

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resilience and wow, that takes a lot.

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I grew up with suicidal ideation

since I was five, so I know

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exactly what you're talking about.

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And

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it's important, I think,

for us to note that.

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It seems suicidal ideation in very

young people, even though you're

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looking to exit, it's always in a

way that leaves people feeling grief

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but not feeling responsible for it.

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is really interesting because when we

are so inward turned, we're wanting to do

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what we think is best for those around us.

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And it's never leaving them with pain.

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The unfortunate thing is if we do pass,

we are leaving them all with pain.

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And I think that's an important

distinction, because if you, if somebody

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in our audience thinks that those around

you would be better off without you, we

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are here to tell you that's not true.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely not true, no matter what you

think, no matter what has happened, and

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something, Rebekah, that you said, that

I think I mirror, we don't know exactly

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what those around us, be they our family

members, our friends, if we've never

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asked them We cannot assume what they

think or how they feel and that's a, I

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don't want this to sound mean, but it's

a conceit on our part that we know.

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And that's a human feeling.

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We can't help but feel that way.

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Yeah.

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And if I could even just speak to that

for a second, where again, I think

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it was very cultural for me, where.

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We did not have those conversations.

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We didn't really talk.

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So for me to even ask them

if they, is this your intent?

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I, we did not have those conversations.

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I do remember cause when I was 16, I

ran away from home and then they brought

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me back because I was still under age

and my parents have that authority.

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So when I came back my dad.

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Like he sat down and he told me, he's

if you ever want to talk, I don't care

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if it's two in the morning, we are here,

your mom and I, we are here and we want

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you to talk, we want to talk to you, but.

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Then on the flip side of that,

they never created that safe space

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for a teenager to talk to them.

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I didn't trust my parents.

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I really didn't.

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I did not feel safe with them.

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I I remember, I know I was over 21.

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I just remember I was of age

until when I had that first

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moment of actually being able to.

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Face my dad, look him in the

eyes without being scared, like

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without being completely terrified.

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And even then it terrified me, but it

did something for me where it it gave

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me that sliver of, I'm getting back my

control, my voice, like I'm taking back

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that control Because my dad had that

control over me for a very long time.

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Even after I left the Amish, it's

interesting how you can leave something

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like that, but you continue in those

ways and those people still have

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that control over you, which is.

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That's very much what I dealt

with because I didn't understand

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how those things will follow you.

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It's funny how it can take the strangest

things for us to realize how deeply

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our upbringing is embedded in us.

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The strangest things set that off

there's no rhyme or reason, but our

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childhoods, what we learn in childhood,

the tenets we learn the fear we learn.

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Yeah.

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Whether rightly or wrongly.

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Elaine Lindsay: Okay.

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That stays with us forever.

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And, in, in my case, , my mother used the

phrase, wait until your father comes home.

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That was to me, the kiss of death.

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I remember that.

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Rebekah Hope: yes I can

definitely relate to that.

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Yeah.

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Elaine Lindsay: As an adult.

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Okay.

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The worst thing that ever happened.

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My father threw his

glasses against the wall.

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My father never laid a hand on any of us.

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Any of us, there's only two of us.

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But that was not my father's way.

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But my mother knew that the threat

was enough to make me believe

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because of how it was said.

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The funny thing was, She would talk

about, he would lose his job because

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he would, he was in the military and he

would have to have his glasses replaced.

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It doesn't even make sense

now as an adult so what?

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He broke his glasses.

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No, he had me believing that,

the colonel of the base would be

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notified that my father had to

get new glasses because of me.

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Yeah.

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And those patterns of thinking,

I, the more I, cause I studied

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psychology for a little bit and

I got a diploma in mental health.

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Like I've gotten the

educational part of it.

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Plus the personal experience of just like

how you develop the thought patterns.

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And that it's never placed upon a

child to make sure that they think

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properly, it's something that's

ingrained in them by association.

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And back to the reference I made

earlier about Like, why was I

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thinking the way I was thinking?

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It had to do with how I perceived the

people around me and what was placed

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upon me, what you were referencing

as far as your mom talking to you.

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So the things that I heard, the

things that I was told, let me

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to believe that I was not wanted.

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Let me to believe that I was a mistake

and that I was the wrong gender and that

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I was better off if I wouldn't be there.

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And the only reason they

wanted me there was.

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Because there were a lot of chores to do

and I, they needed me to do those chores.

308

: 00:21:59

I, that, that was just, I took

great pride in my physical

309

: 00:22:02

abilities simply because of that.

310

: 00:22:05

And I spent my entire childhood and

teenage years doing what I thought

311

: 00:22:11

boys would do as far as working

in the field with my dad and just

312

: 00:22:16

proving to him that it did not

matter if I wore a dress or pants.

313

: 00:22:20

That I could do what he needed done yet.

314

: 00:22:23

It was just like never quite enough.

315

: 00:22:26

But what I wanted to reference there is

it does not matter how much people get

316

: 00:22:33

you to believe that you shouldn't be

here or you're not, you're a mistake.

317

: 00:22:39

It is simply not.

318

: 00:22:41

True.

319

: 00:22:42

You might feel that way and we can

validate that feeling, but then we need

320

: 00:22:47

to dive into why do you feel that way?

321

: 00:22:50

Because that feeling can change and it

is, it's a lie that you're believing

322

: 00:22:56

that you shouldn't be on this earth.

323

: 00:22:59

That was, I was deceived into believing

that because of how I perceived my

324

: 00:23:05

surroundings and the people in my life.

325

: 00:23:08

So I just really felt that in my heart.

326

: 00:23:10

Reference that.

327

: 00:23:12

That is such an important point.

328

: 00:23:14

Thank you for taking it that much farther.

329

: 00:23:17

I really appreciate that.

330

: 00:23:19

It's, it is so critical that we

understand all those pieces because

331

: 00:23:29

being brought up in different

religions to whatever extent

332

: 00:23:36

is a form of indoctrination.

333

: 00:23:39

Absolutely.

334

: 00:23:40

And I believe that being Amish.

335

: 00:23:45

There is a wider net cast in

making one Amish than making

336

: 00:23:54

one a Christian or Catholic.

337

: 00:23:57

My, I was brought up Catholic.

338

: 00:24:01

It did not, it was not all encompassing.

339

: 00:24:05

It was not, it wasn't the

umbrella over all we did.

340

: 00:24:11

I didn't, do things a certain

way because I was Catholic.

341

: 00:24:16

It is different if you're

Mennonite or you're Amish.

342

: 00:24:19

Your ways of doing things

are related to being

343

: 00:24:25

well, everything revolves

around their religion.

344

: 00:24:27

That's the core of their lifestyle.

345

: 00:24:29

So exactly.

346

: 00:24:30

And

347

: 00:24:31

That's a really important distinction

because I'm going to ask a

348

: 00:24:36

question simply out of curiosity.

349

: 00:24:38

Complete ignorance, but I understood

as teenagers, you had, what

350

: 00:24:46

Rebekah Hope: is it?

351

: 00:24:46

Rumspringa?

352

: 00:24:47

Rumspringa, yeah.

353

: 00:24:49

So that's sorry, did you

have a question along that?

354

: 00:24:51

Elaine Lindsay: I just, because you left

at 17 Did you not have that option or,

355

: 00:24:56

Rebekah Hope: okay.

356

: 00:24:57

Yeah.

357

: 00:24:58

So that is probably the number

one question I get is, okay.

358

: 00:25:02

So did you leave during rum

springer or what is that even?

359

: 00:25:05

Some people don't even

know what room springer is.

360

: 00:25:07

And for those who don't, rum springer

is a time in a teenager's life where

361

: 00:25:12

parents simply close their eyes, turn

their back and allow their child to

362

: 00:25:16

explore the world without consequences.

363

: 00:25:19

They can drive a car.

364

: 00:25:21

I have all of the modern day technology

and they're, the reason for that is

365

: 00:25:27

they believe that if they allow their

child to get that out of their system,

366

: 00:25:31

they will then want to come back and

settle down as an Amish realizing that

367

: 00:25:36

the world is not the way the Amish

are the only way for my community.

368

: 00:25:42

We were not allowed that simply because.

369

: 00:25:46

My parents, my the specific community.

370

: 00:25:50

Cause there's different communities,

different types of Amish.

371

: 00:25:53

My community thought that would be giving

your child a one way ticket to hell.

372

: 00:25:58

That is in literal form.

373

: 00:26:00

That is what they thought.

374

: 00:26:02

So we did not have that option.

375

: 00:26:04

Therefore, we weren't,

there was no way out.

376

: 00:26:08

But an interesting factor about that

is those who do have the privilege

377

: 00:26:12

of going through Romspringa, a larger

percentage of those actually come back.

378

: 00:26:20

Yeah.

379

: 00:26:20

Then those who leave and never come back.

380

: 00:26:23

So I found that super interesting

when I was doing that research.

381

: 00:26:27

Elaine Lindsay: Yeah.

382

: 00:26:28

Yeah.

383

: 00:26:29

Thank you.

384

: 00:26:29

Thank you for that because

that was my question.

385

: 00:26:34

A long time ago, I researched that

I had done some work with an Amish

386

: 00:26:40

community and I was just really

fascinated by the whole concept.

387

: 00:26:46

It's a tiny relation to this, but

when I was 12 years old, my parents

388

: 00:26:52

sat me down and my father said, we

want to talk to you about smoking.

389

: 00:27:00

Okay.

390

: 00:27:00

We don't want you to smoke.

391

: 00:27:02

We don't think it's a good thing.

392

: 00:27:04

And this is way, way back when.

393

: 00:27:07

So it wasn't even considered

really a bad thing yet.

394

: 00:27:11

But my father said, I cannot

in all good conscience tell

395

: 00:27:14

you not to smoke because I do.

396

: 00:27:18

I only ask, your mother and I want

you to ask our permission first.

397

: 00:27:24

We would like to know

if you plan to smoke.

398

: 00:27:30

And it was the best psychology

anyone could have used.

399

: 00:27:36

Because it was like okay,

I don't need to do that.

400

: 00:27:40

It was the permission was all that

was required for me not to do that.

401

: 00:27:49

And the not doing it was my own choice.

402

: 00:27:53

But had they simply said, we don't

want you to smoke, I think as a

403

: 00:27:59

teenager, I would have felt hell

bent on then I'm going to smoke.

404

: 00:28:04

So I thought of Rumspringa as that,

okay, we'll take the brakes off.

405

: 00:28:11

We'll let you do whatever.

406

: 00:28:13

And you'll come to your

senses pretty quickly.

407

: 00:28:17

And yeah the numbers for me were borne

out because There are more who come back.

408

: 00:28:24

I didn't realize there were communities

where that was not available.

409

: 00:28:30

Rebekah Hope: The interesting part of

that is I didn't even know Rumspringa

410

: 00:28:33

existed until after I left the Amish.

411

: 00:28:35

Oh, no!

412

: 00:28:36

Yeah, because I, naturally, you

meet other Examish and you connect

413

: 00:28:41

because, oh, you grew up the way I did.

414

: 00:28:43

Okay.

415

: 00:28:44

You get to talking and I'm

like, what do you mean?

416

: 00:28:46

Rumspringa?

417

: 00:28:47

You mean your parents

allowed you to do that?

418

: 00:28:50

And they let you park your

vehicle on their property.

419

: 00:28:53

That was just bizarre to me.

420

: 00:28:55

I like, I couldn't even get the concept

of it at first because I just, I actually

421

: 00:29:03

didn't believe it at first because it

was so funny to me, you I've now met

422

: 00:29:08

a lot of people who actually they left

during Rumspringa and never went back.

423

: 00:29:12

But it was also through those

conversations that I searched deeper

424

: 00:29:18

and did, did some more research

and realized that there is a larger

425

: 00:29:22

percentage who end up going back than

those who never have it leave and.

426

: 00:29:28

Definitely don't want to go back.

427

: 00:29:29

Like myself.

428

: 00:29:30

So it's yeah, that's interesting.

429

: 00:29:33

How parenting is yeah I'm not a

parent, so I speak to that, but

430

: 00:29:38

I can see how the psychology part

of it that you were speaking about

431

: 00:29:43

that, that I definitely see that

432

: 00:29:47

Elaine Lindsay: well, and the

fact is as a And a grandparent.

433

: 00:29:53

I now understand.

434

: 00:29:56

We don't come with a handbook.

435

: 00:29:59

Parents only do what they know.

436

: 00:30:02

Or what they've seen.

437

: 00:30:04

And it makes it very hard for people who

have grown up in an abusive situation

438

: 00:30:14

because in all likelihood the parents

came from an abusive association.

439

: 00:30:21

And

440

: 00:30:23

it's part of the human condition.

441

: 00:30:26

If all you know is abuse,

that to you is love.

442

: 00:30:32

And that is what you search for, right?

443

: 00:30:37

Because that's what you know.

444

: 00:30:39

On, on the other side, if you grow

up in a loving household, Then it's a

445

: 00:30:46

little easier to try and be loving to

your children, but still they don't

446

: 00:30:52

come with a handbook and Yeah, we all

have different personalities and It can

447

: 00:31:01

be challenging to bring up children.

448

: 00:31:05

We don't you know what one of my guests We

don't come with a handbook for our brain.

449

: 00:31:14

This is something that every

child should be taught to utilize.

450

: 00:31:19

And we don't.

451

: 00:31:20

You need to get a license for

a bicycle, or a dog, or a cat.

452

: 00:31:27

But there is no requirements to

drive your brain, which is the

453

: 00:31:31

most powerful computer on earth.

454

: 00:31:37

Which is mind blowing

when you think of it.

455

: 00:31:40

Rebekah Hope: And I do know that

has a lot to do with it's definitely

456

: 00:31:45

a big contributing factor in me

being able to give my parents grace

457

: 00:31:49

in the way they raised me because

in their defense that truly is all

458

: 00:31:55

they knew and from what I have seen.

459

: 00:31:59

I do believe they grew up

even stricter than I did.

460

: 00:32:03

Because they didn't even have the

technology part where they could

461

: 00:32:07

access it like it wasn't available

to the world versus just not

462

: 00:32:13

available to the Amish community.

463

: 00:32:15

Now, if I was caught with a cell

phone, there were consequences,

464

: 00:32:19

but in their age, like They weren't

even available for them to go find.

465

: 00:32:25

So it was even easier for their

parents to have that authority

466

: 00:32:32

when this is the way we live.

467

: 00:32:34

You got to put up with it, or

this is just normal, as you said.

468

: 00:32:39

And it's also interesting how speaking

to that It was quite a few years after

469

: 00:32:45

I left until I actually admitted that

there was abuse in the home because I

470

: 00:32:53

was simply with the belief that it wasn't

abuse because I was told it's not abuse.

471

: 00:33:00

I was groomed to believe this is normal.

472

: 00:33:04

And this is discipline.

473

: 00:33:06

And if your dad beats you up, it's

because you did something to deserve it.

474

: 00:33:11

Even if he didn't explain what that was,

you just knew that there was something

475

: 00:33:16

you did wrong and next time do better.

476

: 00:33:19

Like that was, yeah.

477

: 00:33:22

Yeah, so I I think it was the first

time I actually am going, wait a minute,

478

: 00:33:29

maybe that was abuse was when I went to

see a doctor about some physical pain

479

: 00:33:36

that I have been experiencing for years.

480

: 00:33:39

When it came down to it, they actually

wanted to call authorities on my

481

: 00:33:43

parents, but I was already of age and

I was thinking of my siblings who are

482

: 00:33:50

not and i'm going Yeah, I had convinced

them not to anyway, What I was trying

483

: 00:33:55

to say is the doctor told me it was

abuse because I have a permanent

484

: 00:34:06

damage to my body because of it.

485

: 00:34:10

And when you are in physical pain and

you feel that pain every single day,

486

: 00:34:14

at some point you got to come to the

conclusion that maybe it wasn't right.

487

: 00:34:18

Maybe it wasn't okay.

488

: 00:34:20

And that it took a doctor to tell me

that in order for me to even go, Yeah,

489

: 00:34:27

I think what my parents did was abuse.

490

: 00:34:30

Elaine Lindsay: Yeah, and that is

completely understandable when you

491

: 00:34:34

are in a closed community, because

you can only know what you live.

492

: 00:34:43

You can only know what's around you,

493

: 00:34:47

and it makes it very hard for people

in closed communities, in whatever

494

: 00:34:54

sect you may be, to understand where

that line is, what is acceptable and

495

: 00:35:00

what is not acceptable, or what is the

norm in a society that is respectful

496

: 00:35:10

to others persons.

497

: 00:35:13

It's different from my time to yours.

498

: 00:35:17

And it's different from my

time to my parents time.

499

: 00:35:21

And, my father used to talk about his

grandmother, and I'm sorry, I don't know

500

: 00:35:26

if it's maternal or paternal, but she

would take turns boxing the boy's ears.

501

: 00:35:37

And telling them that was for

nothing, just imagine what

502

: 00:35:41

you'll get for something.

503

: 00:35:44

And I used to think, come on, you're

making that up, but he wasn't.

504

: 00:35:50

It was considered she was an elder

and she would make them toe the line.

505

: 00:35:58

Whether they were good, bad, or

indifferent kids didn't matter.

506

: 00:36:03

Which, to me is quite odd.

507

: 00:36:06

I know my grandmother never

would have thought of doing that.

508

: 00:36:12

But, as Maya Angelou said, as

we know better, we do better.

509

: 00:36:19

And I believe that, or I choose to

believe, that even closed sex, as

510

: 00:36:28

times change, and children are more

inquisitive are growing up in front

511

: 00:36:34

of our eyes faster than ever before.

512

: 00:36:38

And the fact is I hate to bring this

down to monkeys, but they say, a monkey

513

: 00:36:46

learns to peel a banana or a fruit or

whatever when they lived on an island.

514

: 00:36:53

And after that, within the next

generation, all the monkeys

515

: 00:36:58

everywhere know how to do that.

516

: 00:37:04

They were never shown that.

517

: 00:37:06

It's a, it becomes a generational thing.

518

: 00:37:10

Most of the children, like you,

you talk about having a cell phone.

519

: 00:37:17

If I had a cell phone when I was a kid.

520

: 00:37:20

Somebody would have locked me up.

521

: 00:37:23

They didn't exist.

522

: 00:37:25

Barely the phone on the wall existed.

523

: 00:37:29

But It's really interesting to me that

when my nephew's son, who is now 15, when

524

: 00:37:38

he was here, he was, I think, 18 months

old, and he went into our family room,

525

: 00:37:46

and he was trying to make the pictures

move on the television, because his

526

: 00:37:52

father had an iPad, and you could move

things on the iPad, but he intrinsically

527

: 00:37:59

just knew it's So I should just do this.

528

: 00:38:03

It was fascinating to watch.

529

: 00:38:06

Granted, my TV didn't do that, because

it wasn't But To be able to pick that up

530

: 00:38:14

and to extrapolate that from one thing

at 18 months of age, like humans are

531

: 00:38:26

going ahead by leaps and bounds.

532

: 00:38:30

What that brings me to is how do we work

on that normalization of the conversation

533

: 00:38:41

around suicide, around ideation, around

mental health, which in closed societies

534

: 00:38:52

and even in open, we do not talk about.

535

: 00:38:58

And that's why we're left with

all this stigma and shame and the

536

: 00:39:02

constant silence around people

who have taken their own lives.

537

: 00:39:09

Rebekah Hope: Yeah it is I definitely

chose a very hard topic because the

538

: 00:39:16

stigma around it just, in the world at

large, but then to the extreme in my

539

: 00:39:24

culture, it's really just not what you do.

540

: 00:39:28

You just don't talk

about things like that.

541

: 00:39:31

It, again, going, this might have,

not just been in the Amish community.

542

: 00:39:36

If you go back far enough in age is

you're just either crazy or you're normal.

543

: 00:39:43

And you, some people call it

the nut house, like whatever.

544

: 00:39:47

I don't know if I can say that on

here, but just nobody wants to go

545

: 00:39:52

there because those people are crazy.

546

: 00:39:54

And I've been in a mental institution.

547

: 00:40:00

I'm not crazy.

548

: 00:40:01

I know I'm not.

549

: 00:40:03

Do I have challenges?

550

: 00:40:04

Yes.

551

: 00:40:05

Mental health, it's the exact

same as physical health.

552

: 00:40:10

We need to talk about it, not to

say that when you are, when you

553

: 00:40:16

have a mental illness, that is okay.

554

: 00:40:18

No, it's recognizing that The

issue at hand so we can fix it.

555

: 00:40:23

Just if you have cancer, you

can't just say, okay, now it's

556

: 00:40:26

okay and normal to have cancer.

557

: 00:40:28

No, you're going to die.

558

: 00:40:30

Like you need to deal with it.

559

: 00:40:33

I've been diagnosed with different

things that I do believe that I have had.

560

: 00:40:39

I still very much struggle with PTSD.

561

: 00:40:42

I do not deny that, but it's.

562

: 00:40:46

When you talk about normalizing these

conversations, it's your perception

563

: 00:40:51

about it that will allow you to do

it's not somebody who is mentally

564

: 00:40:55

challenged or yeah, I'm going to

just, I'm going to label it as

565

: 00:40:59

somebody who is mentally challenged.

566

: 00:41:01

They're not crazy.

567

: 00:41:04

There is an issue.

568

: 00:41:05

That needs to be dealt with because

you would never look at somebody who

569

: 00:41:09

has cancer and go they're crazy ever.

570

: 00:41:13

I mean if you do then there's other

conversations that need to be had.

571

: 00:41:17

But I think you get my point.

572

: 00:41:18

It is something that more people

struggle with it than we realize simply

573

: 00:41:23

because we have not allowed those safe

places for the conversations to be had.

574

: 00:41:29

So that the two main things that I do

with my life coaching is one, Suicide

575

: 00:41:36

prevention, helping people recognize

certain things so that they don't

576

: 00:41:41

go into the idea of the only escape

from this pain is ending my life.

577

: 00:41:48

And then on the flip hand the flip

side of that people who have no

578

: 00:41:53

clue, maybe the people who think

that you're crazy or you're normal

579

: 00:41:59

educating them on mental health.

580

: 00:42:02

Suicide prevention, what would

lead somebody to do that?

581

: 00:42:06

And the signs that you can be looking for.

582

: 00:42:09

I was the perfect example of that.

583

: 00:42:11

I, it took me years actually for

me to tell my sister, I have one

584

: 00:42:17

sister who left the Amish as well.

585

: 00:42:19

And before I say this, I just want

to say we are really close today.

586

: 00:42:23

Like we have a really

good relationship and.

587

: 00:42:25

I am forever grateful that I have one

blood sister that I can say that about.

588

: 00:42:30

But when I first attempted,

it took me a few years to even

589

: 00:42:36

tell her that it was an attempt.

590

: 00:42:38

And she, her first

response was actually, wow.

591

: 00:42:44

I actually thought that was

cowardly and was I taken aback?

592

: 00:42:48

Absolutely.

593

: 00:42:49

But you know what it did?

594

: 00:42:51

It brought awareness to

me that she doesn't know.

595

: 00:42:58

She truly doesn't know.

596

: 00:43:00

And you know why she doesn't know?

597

: 00:43:01

Because I didn't tell her.

598

: 00:43:03

I didn't tell her how I was feeling.

599

: 00:43:05

Is she responsible to make that

safe place for me to talk about it?

600

: 00:43:10

Yeah, to a certain extent.

601

: 00:43:13

But I'm also responsible to talk

to her about it because how else

602

: 00:43:18

is she going to know about it?

603

: 00:43:20

So it's everyone taking responsibility

for their own actions Those who don't

604

: 00:43:25

struggle with it How they can create

a safe space for those who do struggle

605

: 00:43:30

with it That we can work together and

one isn't better than the other that

606

: 00:43:36

was the biggest thing when I got out of

the hospital was They actually came and

607

: 00:43:40

interviewed me and they're like, because

of the feedback I was giving them, they

608

: 00:43:44

wanted to know what they are doing wrong

because I saw so many things wrong that

609

: 00:43:49

just really but we, when I left, they

wanted an interview on my feedback.

610

: 00:43:56

And I said, you know what, if I.

611

: 00:43:58

Would it leave you was one thing I would

tell you that there cannot be a gap

612

: 00:44:03

between a police officer showing up on for

example, that's how I was hospitalized.

613

: 00:44:09

Like I am the example of police officers

showing up on scene because they

614

: 00:44:15

thought I was going to take my life.

615

: 00:44:17

And I will tell you that I very much felt

like they thought they were here and I was

616

: 00:44:25

It's not even here you know what I mean?

617

: 00:44:27

There cannot be a gap between those two.

618

: 00:44:30

And for there to not be a gap between

those two, there needs to be education.

619

: 00:44:36

Education.

620

: 00:44:37

And they even, in the interview, they

even asked me, they're like, so are you

621

: 00:44:41

saying like people who struggle with

mental health are like more educated

622

: 00:44:45

than those, Who are trying to help them.

623

: 00:44:47

You know what?

624

: 00:44:50

I don't know if I use education, but

they're further advanced because they're

625

: 00:44:54

trying to tell you what they need.

626

: 00:44:56

And you're looking at them.

627

: 00:44:57

Like we got to put them on Mets because

we can't handle their emotions right now.

628

: 00:45:03

It's not going to fix anything.

629

: 00:45:04

Anything at all, so

630

: 00:45:09

I don't want to ran a

little bit there, but

631

: 00:45:11

Elaine Lindsay: No, you, you got on,

you got off on the perfect grant,

632

: 00:45:15

Rebekah Hope: As you can tell.

633

: 00:45:17

Elaine Lindsay: Okay.

634

: 00:45:18

Because you are singing my song.

635

: 00:45:22

Okay, my song is about first responders

and all that deal with mental health

636

: 00:45:32

issues and suicide and ideation.

637

: 00:45:38

You have to immerse yourself first.

638

: 00:45:43

And I firmly believe that surgeons

need to be put in hospital for 48 hours

639

: 00:45:51

and have the residents work on them.

640

: 00:45:55

The way they do on a patient

because patients are not sides

641

: 00:45:59

of beef for first responders that

deal with mental health issues.

642

: 00:46:05

You need to spend 24 to 48 hours

in a mental health facility.

643

: 00:46:12

So you can understand how it feels and

understand life from the other side

644

: 00:46:24

of what it feels like to be looked at.

645

: 00:46:29

Sorry to say it this way, but as a lab

rat, okay, because very often, Policemen.

646

: 00:46:38

are there to help and they want

to help, but their fear of what

647

: 00:46:44

they don't know takes over.

648

: 00:46:48

And you can't know what

you have not experienced.

649

: 00:46:52

I don't care how smart you are.

650

: 00:46:55

So that's been my lifelong dream,

if you will, is to have everyone who

651

: 00:47:04

says they want to be helpful Then

fine, put yourself in their place.

652

: 00:47:12

And once you've experienced that, you

will have a completely different view.

653

: 00:47:18

Rebekah Hope: Exactly, because if we

are going to bring the suicide rate

654

: 00:47:23

to zero, which is my goal, bring the

suicide rate to zero one life at a time.

655

: 00:47:27

We have to believe that there is no

difference between, I'm just going

656

: 00:47:34

to use the example where we were

using a police officer and somebody

657

: 00:47:38

who's about to end their life.

658

: 00:47:39

Here's why, because

there is no difference.

659

: 00:47:43

At the core, we are both human, we bleed

red, and we have a heart that beats.

660

: 00:47:51

Elaine Lindsay: And at some point,

That person who wants to take their

661

: 00:47:55

life could in fact be a police officer,

662

: 00:47:59

Rebekah Hope: and vice versa.

663

: 00:48:00

There's that's why there's and the

second that we have the perception

664

: 00:48:05

that anybody has the perception

that there is a difference.

665

: 00:48:09

Between those two people, that is adding

to the problem, not the solution, because

666

: 00:48:16

then we live on a false perception

that we're not both human, who bleed

667

: 00:48:20

red, and beat the same heartbeat.

668

: 00:48:22

Like that's just

669

: 00:48:26

Elaine Lindsay: And part of that is where

we are right now, and this is why I keep

670

: 00:48:30

talking about normalizing conversation.

671

: 00:48:34

Because Even in the stats we have, which

this year are particularly horrific.

672

: 00:48:44

We have passed the 1 million

mark in suicides this year.

673

: 00:48:51

Our initial approximation

for this year was 800, 000.

674

: 00:48:57

We are almost a quarter more.

675

: 00:49:04

Okay, so 25 percent more in

this year, which is horrific.

676

: 00:49:11

All of that to say.

677

: 00:49:13

Those stats aren't

678

: 00:49:17

because we have children, and the

fact is children as young as eight.

679

: 00:49:26

But, quite often, the coroner,

the parents, the family, they

680

: 00:49:31

don't want it recorded as such.

681

: 00:49:33

And they don't tell the

authorities that's what happened.

682

: 00:49:39

Also, that happens in

older people as well.

683

: 00:49:44

And what about all of those that don't

have a lot of people around them?

684

: 00:49:49

We don't know, so we don't even

have the appropriate stats.

685

: 00:49:55

The reason for that is because

we don't talk about it.

686

: 00:50:02

And talking about it, getting rid of

that stigma, the silence, and the shame,

687

: 00:50:09

That is my mission, to help everyone

who's in the suicide prevention game.

688

: 00:50:17

Because we do want to get suicide to zero.

689

: 00:50:22

Because every single human.

690

: 00:50:28

Rebekah Hope: Yep, and if I didn't

believe that was possible, I would

691

: 00:50:31

have never made that my mission.

692

: 00:50:35

My number one mission, bring the suicide

rate to zero, one life at a time.

693

: 00:50:38

And that is why I, also, my motto, what

I live by is always choose love, because

694

: 00:50:47

yes, it is the ultimate sacrifice, but

it's because there truly is hope for all.

695

: 00:50:53

There really truly is hope for all,

and if we start with always choosing

696

: 00:50:57

love in whatever we do, there's not

going to be any room for hate and

697

: 00:51:03

stigma and all those things that

are really just absence of love.

698

: 00:51:08

Very much

699

: 00:51:09

Elaine Lindsay: rebekah, this has

been a truly wonderful conversation.

700

: 00:51:15

With you because it is all about hope

it with you is all about love, which

701

: 00:51:22

I think is wonderful and the hope that

we can take away from this conversation

702

: 00:51:30

just to change one life means the world

703

: 00:51:37

we will have all of the information

for you to be able to get a hold

704

: 00:51:43

of Rebekah I cannot thank you

enough for joining me today.

705

: 00:51:49

I look forward to hopefully having

another conversation with you

706

: 00:51:54

because I don't think we're done.

707

: 00:51:56

Rebekah Hope: Yeah, it

doesn't feel like we're done.

708

: 00:51:58

So I'm very much looking forward to that.

709

: 00:52:00

And I just want to say

thank you for having me on.

710

: 00:52:03

I greatly appreciate it.

711

: 00:52:05

And yeah, I look forward

to paying it forward.

712

: 00:52:09

Elaine Lindsay: That makes two of us.

713

: 00:52:12

So as I said, you'll be able to find

all you need about Rebekah down below.

714

: 00:52:18

And on that note, I'll say to each

and every one of you, make the

715

: 00:52:22

very best of your today, every day.

716

: 00:52:26

And I look forward to

seeing you next time.

717

: 00:52:28

Thank you, Rebekah.

718

: 00:52:30

Thank you.

719

: 00:52:31

Bye for now.

720

: 00:52:34

Voiceover: Thank you for being

here for another inspiring episode

721

: 00:52:38

of Suicide Zen Forgiveness.

722

: 00:52:39

We appreciate you tuning in.

723

: 00:52:41

Please subscribe and download on your

favorite service and check out SZF's

724

: 00:52:46

YouTube channel or Facebook community.

725

: 00:52:48

If you have the chance to leave

a five star rating or review,

726

: 00:52:51

it'd be greatly appreciated.

727

: 00:52:53

Please refer this to a friend you

know who may benefit from the hope

728

: 00:52:56

and inspiration from our guests.

729

: 00:52:59

Suicide Zen Forgiveness was brought

to you by the following sponsors.

730

: 00:53:03

TROOL Social Media, the digital

integration specialists.

731

: 00:53:07

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one in the search results.

732

: 00:53:11

Canada's Keynote Humorist, Judy Croon.

733

: 00:53:13

Motivational speaker, comedian, author,

and stand up coach at Second City.

734

: 00:53:18

Judy has been involved for over

a decade in the City Street

735

: 00:53:21

Outreach Program in Toronto.

736

: 00:53:23

Elaine Lindsay: The

Ultimate Podcasting Pack.

737

: 00:53:26

This is great for you if you're

just starting your podcast, or if

738

: 00:53:32

you've been running it for a while.

739

: 00:53:34

It's filled with tools, templates,

and trainings for starting, growing,

740

: 00:53:38

and monetizing your podcast.

741

: 00:53:41

Get access to time saving systems

and strategies for accelerating

742

: 00:53:46

your process at each step.

743

: 00:53:48

Find new connections and collaborations

in the uplifting podcasting community.

744

: 00:53:55

I look forward to seeing you there.

745

: 00:53:58

Voiceover: Do you have a story to share?

746

: 00:54:01

Do you know someone you

think would be a great guest?

747

: 00:54:04

Please go to SZF42.

748

: 00:54:07

com and for our American

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749

: 00:54:11

com.

750

: 00:54:12

Thank you for listening and

we hope to see you again.